i want some new toys too

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i want some new toys too

Postby t-bone » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:53 pm

hi
who do i have to talk to to put some log rides, like they have at heartwood, in frick park. i have been looking for a excuse to use my chainsaw for a bit now
and wold love to make my own toys
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Postby drumbum » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:37 pm

You can't use a chainsaw in a county park, so don't even think about that. Most of the "stunts" there are a grey area with the county parks...they don't like them because of liability issues.

Try getting in touch with PTAG. Maybe they can organize a mini-workday at Frick?

BTW, IMBA is coming October 20-22. They'll be teaching a class on the morning of the 21st, then going out to Frick in the afternoon to work on a new trail. Who knows what they're planning? 8)
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Postby t-bone » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:59 pm

the imba thing is kinda exciting hope they reopen the hill section that dumps onto the iron gate from the fire road. that is a great trail that has not been used enough.

i really like what the ptag is doing, though i was thinking about talking to Meg Cheever or even Luke Ravenstahl and asking them who in charge of mantaince. (who can use chainsaws in the city park)
but i really don't know if they are the people to talk to so......

i will talk to ptag, i wanted to ask them to put down erosion neting between there cutbacks anyway(just incase your reading this).
but i also wanted to take an active part in shaping the park that i use the most
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Postby brungeman » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:36 am

Frick is a city park... and no you cant use power equipment there either. I have heard rumor that the park manager really didn't care what was built (as far as stunts) as long as there are NO NEW TRAILS. That was hearsay/rumor from a reliable source!

I would look on the IMBA Website under their freeride design stuff and look at their tips etc. for building before doing anything. Do some "design" leg work, and then go to the park manager with your proposal, to get approval, if you don't you will most likely be looking at a serious disappointment when your hard work gets torn out!

good luck, and PTAG is a good venue for reaching the powers that be! Biber, and Trun have started a grassroots organization that is one of the only trail maint. groups that is consistantly working in the parks, and therefore when PTAG speaks, the powers that be seriously consider their proposals.
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Postby t-bone » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:07 pm

well after some digging on the net and about 15 min of talking to random reception people i found that i have to talk to the city planing people (there are 4 of them) i still don't know who is the person who is best to talk to but i guess i will find out. i am going to drop a line to nancy turn and see what she has to say about it.

i did check out the imba site and they have some very comon sence ideas on how to talk to people about putting in toys ie. addressing concerns. they also had a sprial ramp that would work great on the bottom of the concevercy trail. were it dumps out on the multitrack has some erosion that will get bad if something is not done.

now that i am making some headway i am going to have to load up autocad and get some more ideas down. if anyone wants to chime in now would be a good time.
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Postby Intense1 » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:10 pm

I have a feeling that if you tell them you'd like to put in a feature to control the erosion problem their solution will be to simply close the trail.
There is a steward for Frick park, I forget who it is, but Nancy Trun or Dave Biber will be able to tell you. PTAG has worked very hard to develop communications with park officials so my suggestion is to go through ptag rather than try and reinvent the wheel.
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Postby t-bone » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:17 am

I am rather amazed at the negative response I have got for trying to start things. How does anything get done? I am a master carpenter and have taken the time to make my home town (Honesdale) a great place to ride and plan to do the same here
Pittsburgh is on the verge of becoming a haven for people that love the out doors. We have some of the best intercity single track in the nation. We have been written up as one of the best cites for people who love the outdoors. And again I love what ptag does and like I said I am going to talk to Nancy. Because of my work I don’t have the chance to work with them. So I am going to do what can to do to make my city a better place to live.

The last thing we need to do is to turn a blind eye to the problems. The city will not ignore a well thought plan to stop erosion, let alone shut down a trail just spite us. Together we do have a rather large say.

By confronting issues that the city brings up in advance is the key to working with them. There is extensive erosion control in Shenely Park. Because this is a main concern we should take a forward stance on it which will make it a nonissue
We should also try to head off the liability issue clearly marking the trails and the freeride stunts with a system to tell people the skill level needed to complete them.
There is no reason not to try.

So if you have nothing good to say then don’t. But there is anyone on this board who wants to help shape the future of there city please chime in.
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Postby pratt » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:06 am

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your ideas or telling you not to try to get them in motion. What people are saying is that PTAG already has the communication lines open to the exact people you want to talk to. They have a very good relationship with them. We all need to make sure any significant work that's done in the park system is cleared through the appropriate land manager, biking in the parks has been a touchy subject in the recent past. It is changing...with the help of interested people like yourself.

Trust me it has been very difficult to get the city/county to listen to good ideas about erosion and trail maintenance. Right now we are working hand in hand with the parks dept, the city, and the county.
By all means go to any parks dept meeting and voice your opinion....but if you take your ideas to PTAG you have a much better chance pf getting your plans in the hands of the people that really have a say as to what gets done in the parks. Even if you cannot physically get together with PTAG, Nancy and Biber can probably get you in touch with Andy (city) or Mary Beth(Frick)....or whomever is in charge of the other parks in the surrounding area.

t-bone we all are very happy you are showing an interest in the trail system.
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Postby Intense1 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:21 am

well put Pratt, that's what I was getting at.

I personally think it makes a lot of sense to put in features such as bridges or elevated trail going across muddy sections (that's why they do it on the north shore) but other trail users seem to be strongly opposed to the idea.

Our park officials get calls all day long from people who'd like their ideas heard but it seems we didn't get anywhere with them until we got organized through Ptag. This is why I suggested going through them. I didn't mean to stifle your enthusiasm.
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Bridges

Postby soylentgreen » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:43 am

I agree with having elevated bridges or other structures to avoid mud and areas that are eroding.
I think its more or less a reason of not looking natural having bridges all over the place for some people.
During the last Ptag work day at North Park we fixed up Denny's trail near all the swamp and drainage areas.
Dave Brunger is getting plans and supplies together to add one more bridge in that area with Andy Baechle's blessing.
We just cant have people doing or building whatever they want out on the trails with out the proper approval.
I am guilty at scraping out new trails all over North Park as well as others. I and I dont blame people for wanting to add even more.
That said the recent ones are multi-use and can be enjoyed by Horses,walkers, Runners and Bike riders.
Not just for Bike Riders.

I wish we had a Ray's Mountain bike type park here in Pittsburgh,on a nice "outdoor" chunk of land. Then we could have a designated place to freeride that has insurance and a signed risk waiver. Seven springs is still not close enough, but it sounds awesome.
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Postby brungeman » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:36 am

t-bone wrote:I am rather amazed at the negative response I have got for trying to start things. How does anything get done? I am a master carpenter and have taken the time to make my home town (Honesdale) a great place to ride and plan to do the same here
Pittsburgh is on the verge of becoming a haven for people that love the out doors. We have some of the best intercity single track in the nation. We have been written up as one of the best cites for people who love the outdoors. And again I love what ptag does and like I said I am going to talk to Nancy. Because of my work I don’t have the chance to work with them. So I am going to do what can to do to make my city a better place to live.

The last thing we need to do is to turn a blind eye to the problems. The city will not ignore a well thought plan to stop erosion, let alone shut down a trail just spite us. Together we do have a rather large say.

By confronting issues that the city brings up in advance is the key to working with them. There is extensive erosion control in Shenely Park. Because this is a main concern we should take a forward stance on it which will make it a nonissue
We should also try to head off the liability issue clearly marking the trails and the freeride stunts with a system to tell people the skill level needed to complete them.
There is no reason not to try.

So if you have nothing good to say then don’t. But there is anyone on this board who wants to help shape the future of there city please chime in.

T-Bone, I have to say that Rome wasn'e built in a day. You have been cultivating an idea for some stunts or toys, and you think that you can call the Mayor of the burgh on Weds. and be building by Sat. ? you get confrontational when you post questions in statement form, and don't get the answers you like?

I THINK YOU NEED TO RE-READ the posts and suggestions put out by others to help you not demean anything you have suggested, but to offer you help in finding the propper chanels to work through. There are a lot of people in this cycling community with credentials much like yours, but they still have to go through the propper channels or face the risk of having trails torn down and closed to cyclists all together because they didn't get stuff approved!

YOU MUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. YOU DO NOT WANT TO PUT YOUR HEART AND SOLE INTO THIS WORK ONLY TO BE TOLD TO TEAR IT OUT! I HAVE HAD THE UNPLEASANT EXPERIENCE!!! TRUST ME!!! follow the PTAG channels!
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Postby kikawhat » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:39 pm

There are just as many log crossings in Frick as there are in any other park around here. If you haven't found them, then you haven't looked hard enough.

The Homewood Cemetary Trail is a good example of this

There are also several difficult trails that have fallen into disrepair from being left unused. A few hours work and trails such as these could be opened up and used again. There is a trail that has lots of potential that dumps out into the valley near the Pavillion. If you ride the Rollercoaster in the direction going away from the Slag Piles it banches off to the right before you go up the last hill to the main trail.

According to this map:
http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/cp/maps/frick_park_map.html

Neither the slag piles, nor the homewood cemetary trail is actually under city parks jurisdiction (this is evidenced by the quads and dirtbikes that ride the slag piles, and the incredibly large amount of litter left on the cemetary trail) Which is probably the reason for all the logs and hucks in these areas.

Please Please Please Please do not mess with the other trails in frick. This place is practically my back yard and I don't want my riding privleges taken away from there (or Schenley for that matter)
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Postby t-bone » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:17 pm

Wow there were a lot of non sequiturs in my last post.

anyone else remeber the freeride park that used to be on the Homewood Cemetary Trail were all the kids party? That was great esp that big jump.
the first time i found that place god if must have been 4 years ago now, back when all the log riges were still in good shape. i couldent beleave that people could ride lines like that. every time i went up there i would ride away with a new scrape or bump. then it started to get trashed, i tryed to keep up with the destruction but.... last time i rode that area,this was a year or 3 ago now, i slipped off of the log and hit the ground hard head first. i poped up walk around taking off my helmet to see if there was any damage. It had some dirt stuck in it and ,i sh!t you not, a used comdon stuck in one of the groves. dam that was some sick sheet. it was also the end of the place for me. o well

but anyway there is still a lot of aged lumber up there that even has mesh on it still just waiting to be salvaged.

been working doubles for a wile now so no time for this project. my freind is building an electric recumbent when that's finished i get back to trails.

on the same line i was bullsheeting with some guy that works in the city planing office thouse guys are so stressed it's silly. but on the up side i think that i will get the couminity post board that i wanted for my local parklet.

oh and the trail that kikawhat talks about off of rollercoaster is great. not the slight right but the hard right. i get a scared every time i do it esp the first log jump, alyes think im takeing a header right into the second. so if you don't know it ples check it out. i am sure that it will give you a nice little rush.
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Postby pratt » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:54 pm

t-bone wrote:Wow there were a lot of non sequiturs in my last post.
hey you can't phrases like that in a mountain bike forum...what's wrong with you. lol

We still do ride all that stuff over by the cemetary, the hill jump is a favorite of a few of us. Most of the old lines are all gone, as you know. The "exit" used to have a 30 foot ladder about a foot and a half off the ground...dropped right into the 10 ft downhill near the drinking area. Very nice way of ending the section.

A couple of us tried to rebuild some cool stunts a couple years ago...they were all removed by the drinkers, except for a skinny built to the left of the jump.
That used to be an incredible section of the park, but it wasn't kept up as well as it should have been.


Another good huck in the area is the cliffs after the cemetary, on the way down to the main trail
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Postby Intense1 » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:19 pm

I believe you're speaking of this one :twisted:
http://mtnbiker.smugmug.com/gallery/1920499/2/97154048
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Postby pratt » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:38 pm

that was a great day in the park
me you and filer need to hit up frick for another freeride fest.

love this shot
Image

what's up with the full faces...we're so gay...lol
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Postby Intense1 » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:09 pm

absolutely, I'll bring a bike that goes UP hills as well this time.
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