PORC

gearhead313 wrote:A buddy of mine rode sunday. We did all the marked trails and a couple unmarked I believe. The trails that rav is talking about I dont think we found.

These are wide open, mostly level double track trails. There were lots of walkers and the drainage is horrible. With some work, it might be a good cyclocross trail, but nothing more than that IMO. It was good to see new trails, but unless that more gnarly section down the powerlines is something serious, I probably wont go back.

Gearhead313 - you need to ride all the unblazed trails before coming to that conclusion! The best trails are not the blazed ones!

i hear ya... we were lucky to find where to park! I would give it another go with someone who knew where to go..

Let's try to get a ride going this Wednesday (2nd) or Sunday (6th), weather permitting. Maybe with all our collective knowledge of the trails we can put a good loop or loops together.
Post a reply about which day would be better.

Lots of folks that want to help fix the existing trails @ Settlers. That's good!

But who is willing and able to lead us as an official PTAG Park Steward?

Nothing happens until the position is filled.

I'd take the job but I live @ Seven Springs not somewhere near Robinson.

Will someone please step up so that we can make Settlers Cabin the MTB mecca it can be and something that we can all be proud of?

While everyone was playing in the mud at Punk Bike, I took a hike around Settlers. There are more trails there than I remembered. Most of these showed lots of wear and ruts from dirt bikes and atvs. Since it was extremely cold the ground was frozen, but in the summer, most of these ruts are probably mud pits. There were also some trails that appeared to be untouched by the dirt bikes, which does give a little hope.

Anyway, I saw lots of potential in the park. Some pretty fun trails could be built all over the park. However, I have a feeling the quads and dirt bikes would probably just destroy anything we build out there. On my way back to my car at the park office, I heard some dirt bikes and atvs while I was under the power lines. I caught a glimpse of them but they never came near me. I just can't believe they can get away with riding in the park, especially that close to the park office.

rav400 wrote:I heard some dirt bikes and atvs while I was under the power lines. I caught a glimpse of them but they never came near me. I just can't believe they can get away with riding in the park, especially that close to the park office.

"It is one thing to present a problem. It is a better thing to present a solution!"


Everyone,

What is your proposed solution to help the County keep motorized vehicles out of Settlers Cabin Park woods without investing much money?

For starters, there are new signs up around the park that state "No Hunting No Trapping" but nothing about motorized vehicles. How about signs to start with. I'm not sure if blocking the places they are getting into the park would help. They would most likely just go around or find a new way in.

Take this from a different angle. I'm thinking trail design that will hold up better to moto abuse and will probably end up being a lot less appealing to them. If you do bench cut trails across steep inclines they will drain well and stay drier. To me it seems like this type of trail end up having less appeal. I haven't been out to Settlers but by all accounts the place doesn't seem flat so this kind of design should work. Whatever they have going on out there I think we should just let go trying to fight it. If you are doing trails out there it's something you are going to have to expect and try and work around.

Dave,

This is a (the) great angle. Something we can employ when given permission to fix existing trails and eventually create new ones. Thanks for you positive, realistic approach.

Proper signage is important too.

Preventative entry to trails also helps keep four-wheelers out.

Keeping new trails in / around the "horse shoe" will also help.

What else?

- rk

Shred303 wrote:Take this from a different angle. I'm thinking trail design that will hold up better to moto abuse and will probably end up being a lot less appealing to them. If you do bench cut trails across steep inclines they will drain well and stay drier. To me it seems like this type of trail end up having less appeal. I haven't been out to Settlers but by all accounts the place doesn't seem flat so this kind of design should work. Whatever they have going on out there I think we should just let go trying to fight it. If you are doing trails out there it's something you are going to have to expect and try and work around.

Then it looks like every other trail in the burgh....it isnt a different angle it is the same one in every other park.

Gotta have the park kick the motos off and issue fines. everything else is just playing around.

I don't think it's a good idea to try and kick the motos out. If asked by the county to assist in keeping them out, that's a different story. They are getting away with it somehow... Perhaps they, or someone they know, works for the county??? Trying to rid the park of them might just get us booted as well. Share and share a like! We have many other places to ride where they can't.

Intense1 wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to try and kick the motos out. If asked by the county to assist in keeping them out, that's a different story. They are getting away with it somehow... Perhaps they, or someone they know, works for the county??? Trying to rid the park of them might just get us booted as well. Share and share a like! We have many other places to ride where they can't.

I was thinking this as i was typing. How bummed would i be if there was a group trying to get me kicked out of a place to ride. i was just saying that if you want to keep moto's out building bench cut trails or fabricating means to limit their access isnt going to work. I have seen trees cut out, metal gates cut in half, stumps pulled, and 7 foot tall dirt embankments breached.

chromagnus wrote:

Intense1 wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to try and kick the motos out. If asked by the county to assist in keeping them out, that's a different story. They are getting away with it somehow... Perhaps they, or someone they know, works for the county??? Trying to rid the park of them might just get us booted as well. Share and share a like! We have many other places to ride where they can't.

I was thinking this as i was typing. How bummed would i be if there was a group trying to get me kicked out of a place to ride. i was just saying that if you want to keep moto's out building bench cut trails or fabricating means to limit their access isnt going to work. I have seen trees cut out, metal gates cut in half, stumps pulled, and 7 foot tall dirt embankments breached.

I believe that would be the case at Settlers. If barriers were built to keep dirt bikes and quads out, they will find another way in or destroy/move these barriers. I like the idea of building trails that are less appealing to the dirt bikes and inaccessable to the quads. Building trails that can hold up to the abuse of dirt bikes is also a possibility. One of the trails I walked clearly showed dirt bike wear in places and looked perfect in others. I ran into one group of mountian bikers on my hike who suggested making the trail entrances hidden or start in the middle of the woods and not at an existing trail. I don't think thats too realistic for legal trails.

On a diferent note, how do I post pictures? It doesn't seem to want to work for me.

There have been signs at Settlers that say "No ATVs in the Park" for years. Pretty sure that means it is illegal to ride ATVs in the park.

The county police barracks for Settlers is located at The Greater Pittsburgh Airport, which explains the lack of law enforcement.

chromagnus wrote:

Shred303 wrote:If you do bench cut trails across steep inclines they will drain well and stay drier.

Then it looks like every other trail in the burgh....it isnt a different angle it is the same one in every other park.

What I'm mean by suggesting bench cuts is motorcycle and quads rut the hell out of flat trails and create those huge mud holes. And yeah I've seen some pretty uncreative bench cut trails but they don't have to be that way.

how do you bench cut a flat section of trail? I know what you mean that the tops of the hills have those ruts ala emmerling.

The hillsides would be where the bench cutting would take place and wouldnt keep motos off the trails.

10+ years ago I went to high school at Chartiers Valley which borders that park. Every kid in high school who lived near there and had a dirt bike, rode in the woods around those trails and in the park. Most of the trails I began "mountain biking" on and used to run on were dirt bike trails.

Most of the sections of woods around there that used to have trails are now housing plans. You used to be able to ride from the abandoned mental institution (woodville) over to the park and only cross 2 roads (hilltop and noblestown). You could also make it over there from Bridgeville by crossing 3 roads (and one derelict rail road bridge).

I think the reason for lax enforcement of dirt bike rules is because of the increased enforcement of those rules on the roads around there.

You guys still want to go to a park that isn't/hasn't been used by mountain bikers, and kick out the people who have been using it for 15+ years? Sounds like a dick move to me.

fwiw, you can ride a dirt bike on just about any trail you can ride a mountain bike on.

I belive what has been said here, is you can't have mountain bike trails if you can't kick out the motor cycles. I beleive that's a false choice.

What i am saying is someone would be nuts to put hundreds of hours into building trails when someone that doesnt know how to ride a moto can destroy all the work in a few days. I have seen moto riders that can ride with less impact than a mountain biker, and i have seen motos rip up trails and destroy a great deal of hard work in a small span of time. Then those people that rip stuff up dont put time and effort into fixing or rebuilding. I could care less b/c i probably wont build there or ride there. Just offering input on how to go about starting stewardship of a park that obviously has a pretty big pitfall at the start.

The same argument exists in many other parts of the world. Bikers build and motos destroy. Can they co-exist yeah, does it work most times, no. Have the motos tried to clean up the park and take over the care of it....doesnt sound like it, so why should they get to keep it if they dont put in any effort? If there is a group of people that want to fix and build there why should their hard work be open to destruction by a group that isnt allow to ride there? I can see the coming e-argument broiling here. I'm out.

I'm going to sell one of my bikes and buy 2 horses so I can do twice the damage and try to get you mountain bikers kicked out of all the parks.